March 5, 2009

Asian Females are Submissive – Redux

My least favorite writing was on this very subject last March. I rambled and it was an overall mess. I want to try again.

The stereotype of Asian women being submissive and in general oppressed in the culture is based on non consistent observations and failure to understand the difference in cultures by how they have developed through time and from the differences in the spirituality/religion that is in any cultures foundation no matter what an individual practices.

First here is the actual fact of the matter, Asian women are not remotely naturally submissive and while culture can make complete freedom of choice not a reality by no means that Asian women are oppressed and miserable for it. In fact comparing an Asian women to a Western women life and freedoms you will see immensely most things very similar then different.

Why does this myth get perpetuated so much?

1) People observe limited things and make grandiose judgments.

Someone goes over to an Asian country for a limited time and only observes public behavior. So they see the women doing what looks like submissive things like walk behind their men, wait on them and in general very respectful. They make the erroneous assumption they are like this 24/7. This is wrong and one not just read a definition but truly understands the concept of face (respect) to all Asian people not just men or top business people.

Now to truly get face one could write a novel and still may scratch the surface of it but for the sake of simplicity it is about respecting others in public behaviors and actions. No Asian wants to be disrespected in public. It is truly a huge thing. The problem when discussing face is it is based on Eastern thoughts and terms and not Western. Couples are not going to bad mouth or any other action to show anything but harmony for each other in a public setting. But put them in private and all bets are off. But Asians are way more private then Westerners so to see this side of them is rare even if you spend time with them. For example a private chat between two friends at home a wife can bash her man for three straight hours but with those same friends at some public party not a word. By the way, this goes for the men too. Are there exceptions, of course, but that is more about gray areas and people’s character and not about submissiveness and oppression.

The other part Westerners fail to see is that Eastern culture has a hierarchal bent to it and is quite formalized. So see a women walking behind her man and think submissive is lame because you will see the President of a large corporation walk behind and get the door for the CEO of that company. It crosses gender.

2) We in the power exchange community are idiots about assigning everyday tasks as dominant or submissive.

Cooking a meal does not make one submissive. It just means a person is cooking a meal. Not working or taking a job below ones qualifications in order to take care of the children is not submissive by the act itself. In fact most Western women make this exact same decision and often have to argue with their husband to do this. Hardly submissive! Making a decision or expressing an opinion is not a dominant gesture or a sign of strength just because.

But for some reason if a stranger does these things and especially if we have a language barrier then all of a sudden we imagine a power exchange dynamic to it. It is simply asinine.

3) Asians raised/lived all or mostly in Western culture often help give fuel to this myth.

Sounds racist or turncoat I know but it sadly very truthful in my experiences. I consider myself at times a person without a culture because I believe and live many aspects of both cultures and do not identify mainly with just one. I spent so much time in my informative years in both and taught by my parents to respect both. I remember going to college at a school that has a large Asian student body thinking that would be really helpful and found just the opposite. I found many Asian Americans that grew up entirely in the western culture trash their own race and Eastern culture which they were quite clueless about as most young adults who choose to trash the repressive elders called parents and grandparents.

The problem is they feel the affects of racism and idiotic stereotypes as much as people like me do so their views have to be respected but that also gives them an unfortunate free pass and assumption of knowing Eastern culture that I have found to be sorely lacking when it comes to the relationship dynamics of men and women. Quite simply they often are the biggest promoters of the whole Asian females in Eastern culture are submissive or oppressed.

Differences even slight ones can freak out people that they will unfairly judge different as being bad in some way. This transcends races or gender.

If most Asian women are not all either submissive or oppressed then why are so many ok being in a more traditional role marriage?

It has to do with the difference between Western and Eastern spirituality.

Western spirituality is individualistic. It is about accomplishment of being someone. It is about moral statements of how we and things should be. Eastern spirituality is more about group interaction. It is about learning and understanding how things actually are and how they interact with one another. It is about responsibility to the group over one self.

So how is this expressed in many relationships?


In Western culture you get everything often based on an individual thought process. You get the preaching of a women can have it all, a great career, husband and children. But very little teaching of how that interacts with the husband and children as individuals and not mythical objects. Very little teaching of how to get things or the effort/sacrifice to get some but cannot really all have. Just be this and it should be this way type thoughts.

In Eastern culture you are taught to see things for how they are and interact (Yin/Yang) including men, women and relationships. You can learn to be loved and cherished requires you to love and cherish as well and especially not as a condition to. You will learn to love and cherish your family often means not being able to love and cherish some awesome trendsetting career.

How does reality between the two play out?

Certainly they are more similar then different as there are plenty of wonderful loving and satisfying relationships and plenty of bad relationships in both cultures. The difference though often comes to awareness of what it takes. In Western relationships people can be too prone to bristle and rebel when the dichotomy of what we think life should be like and what life is actually like and especially when we filer other human beings we interact with in relationships. This can lead to the resentment or maybe a milder way to put it frustration of balancing false expectations and reality. Eastern relationships have the same things but have been taught to see the connections, dependencies and limitations of things. Does not mean they are any happier because of it but they understand and accept them better.

Let me be very blunt and discard the exceptions to the rule and focus on the majority, a woman who will marry and have children. Both cultures this will mean the woman will either stop working, take a part time job or limit a full time career path. Most women will be the prime caretaker of the children. Most will do at least the majority of the domestic chores. What they will also have in common is that 99% of them never thought or communicated something like “I wanted my husband to play Mr. Mom and quit his job or cut back severely while I worked long hours, nights, weekends and traveled for mine.” Sorry oppression is simply not a valid argument in my eyes.

For many Western women this example still they bristle with what ifs, hate to do stuff and compartmentalize their love of their children separate from the sacrifice of other things it took. For many Eastern women they accept and embrace their main desire of taking care of their children and what that all entails by seeing how it is all connected. Do some wish they could see how far they could have gotten in a career, of course. Do some or many dislike chores, of course. But they accept it is part of their life and simply see no benefit complaining about it or wishing all hassles away.

This thought process is in their relationship between man and wife as well. Want a loving relationship and for the other to love and take care of you in the way you want to be in a realistic fashion? Then what do I have to do so the other feels loved and taken care of in a realistic fashion? Western focuses on themselves and judges things right or wrong like it is a campaign far too often. Eastern it is simply more accepted to be ok with the differences between men and women.


So often when you see an Asian woman fussing, spoiling and even looking submissive to their other it has nothing to do with being submissive or oppressed. It is simply because they know these actions are their contribution to showing their love and devotion to their other and this will in return in equal effort and appreciation the man doing things that show how love and devotion toward their other on their terms. In all honesty in some ways far more manipulative then submissive! Again to point out divorce rates are not any different in either cultures. Incompatibility and selfish people know no culture influence as a cause.

Conclusion

Looking at brief glances of public behavior that seems more different then actuality because of the setting and maybe language differences does not mean Asian women are submissive. Seeing maybe by a percentage more Asian women accepting of traditional roles including spoiling her man is not as submissive but more understanding how things are connected in life between people and what can be controlled and not.

Think one can find any Asian woman to be their submissive or automatically embrace a traditional role because that is just how they are and that translates directly to Western traditional role is quite ignorant.

Amendment

I wanted to talk about oppression in Eastern society a little. Is there oppression, yes there are things that even in the modern world many/most/I find troubling. You will still find in poor rural areas still some arranged marriages then marriages out of love. You will still see too many trapped in bad marriages because they have no realistic option in order to survive. Eastern culture does have a hierarchal bent toward it and this can lead to selfish decisions in a relationship that most of us would not respect.

But all of these things are the minority. People in very rural America who also would not consider moving to a big city have limited options as well, not the same of course but both are not necessarily under gun point to be in their situation as well.

The real most oppressive thing going on that affects the majority of Eastern countries to this day and that it is still common to base jobs with gender. So for example a male nurse I doubt you would see very many if at all in many countries but you will also see few if any female doctors. It has gotten better in many countries to the point of actually a lot better. But it is still a big problem on the whole.

But when most write about oppression they write about the trapped traditional wife who could not work and therefore leave her bad husband. This is just fiction. As I wrote above divorce rates are just as high in Asian countries as Western countries. Women do work and just like Western women are more prone to voluntarily give up working or a career by their choice then be pressured by their husbands.

Happy and loving couples tend to transcend culture and tend to care about the other being happy more then they care about being happy. Bad relationships look the same way in both cultures as well lots of bickering or no talking and passive aggressive behaviors. Bad and selfish people are also in both cultures as well.

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